Thank you. The article above addresses flagstone joints in a dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation. Then maybe Id write an article and update it once a year, reporting on how it performs and how to best maintain it. And this picture right here, makes it even better. I cant say too much about stabilized decomposed granite. Should we scrape all screening, organic material and weeds? What is the best order to correct an incompleted project gone awry? So far we have tried aggressive scrubbing test areas with soap and water, aggressive scrubbing with a 50/50 bleach mixture, and also with a powerful house siding cleaning mixtureall with no luck, the same haze remains. Set aside ample time for the project, haste makes waste. Im not worried about your base very much if crushed stone has already sat there for years. Do we need to remove all the flagstones, then scrape everything and start back? Its hardened as sort of a spongy material. Thanks so much! Best answer: just use gravel. It depends on where you live. Hope that helps and I wish you good luck! By dirt, you must mean soil. Small voids may be left underneath your paving unitsespecially if you are using irregular natural stone. The cobblestones..1 inch gap sounds large. Pour the concrete into the mold and level it out with a trowel. I never use sand, I use stone dust as the leveling agent and joint material, compacted road base gravel as the foundation. Sweep the stone dust into the flagstone joints, hose down to set in place. What I would do is lift up a few stones and observe the foundation. Ive always seen travertine fit snug with no joint, no joint material.or, with some sort of product that I dont use. Every time it rains, screening from my joints splatters into my stone and patio furniture. Pea gravel is commonly used for walkways, driveways, and as filler between stone pavers around the home. Also, it gives a patio a good appearance, to have all larger stones along the edge. Thats limestone screenings. The larger material will help to jam up the drainage-cut, making it so less fines settle down below the concrete, while still letting water drain. b) take your time, read all the above articles, and educate yourself well enough to try your hand at a hard task or c) go ahead and live in a lame world where you dont need to fit your flagstones together rightyou can just fill the spaces in between with plastic! Doesnt sound too ingenious, when stated that way, doesnt it? Either fulling the joints with soil and seeding, or, during the excavtion Ill carefully remove the sodthe grass itself plus 2 of soil and roots along with it. Looks like the flagstone was set in a concrete base. Great work, youve inspired another. Try https://www.envirobond.com/professional/envirosand/ Organic binding material. I plan on using a thicker layer of concrete sand below the stone, (up to six inches); thick enough so that it accommodates the irregular thickness, and providing me a flat stone surface on top. I do know it's pretty spendy. Just power washed my patio of stone pavers. I used baking soda on my patio to kill weeds. Also, I lived in the Poconos for more than 20 years and at one time not far from your town. Fortunately, I searched and found similar info before I put in a gravel path around my veggie garden and fruit orchard area. Like Ive said many timesjust stay away from plastic landscape products! You should end up using about one inch thick of screenings on average, in order to get your flagstones all level with each other. A bit of a philosophical question, really. So I prefer the powdery-dry methodif Im working solo, usually. We were also going to lay a screen to prevent weeds from growing through (I think below the sand, is this right?) Stone screenings will contain 1/8 inch to 1/16th inch small chips of stone, like large sized sand, and fines, which will be like flour. I was planning on Breeze but hear it will be tracked into the house and wash away. I want to use decomposed granite or a similar natural product, other than sand, that is tan in color instead of grey. Theres a lot of different ways to go about getting a flagstone stable. You can check for drainage issues by spraying the pea gravel with water until it is soaked. Most of my jobs are in Pennsylvania. Compact the pavers and gravel again with a heavy-duty roller or by driving a vehicle over the area. First, you will measure the area and check you have the correct amount of binding solution. Polyurethane coatings. No maintenance issues there. I have an Arizona flagstone patio & sidewalk with mortar over concrete pad and live in Colorado. Ideally a pea gravel patio should have 3" base rock and 1" actual pea gravel. Good luck with your flagstone project . Decomposed granite is the same thing. 2 inch joints however, are acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with stone dust joints. Hello Devin, We found your article a little too late. Good luck! Sorry, never used it! I read your article, thanks. Id go with the stone dust/decomposed granite. I have a great photo showing this that I will email you separately. Yes, concrete can be poured on pea gravel, but it is important to make sure that the gravel is properly prepared. 2. It looks pretty cool as well. I have a flagstone walkway with the stone separated by 3-4 inches (anything closer would be considered an impervious surface and restricted by zoning due to coverage restrictions so nothing to be done about that). Its kind of silly but often people have screenings/breeze/DG all over their flagstones for the simple reason that they insisted on filling the joints in between the stones all the way to the tippy top. We dug eight inches deep, used broken concrete chunks, and then filled the voids with #411 limestone gravel, (1 1/2 inches to fines), and then #10 limestone screening on top. This project will be my first. Early in my flagstone patio career I used to try and keep the screenings in my flagstone joints as close to level with the stones as possible, but with foot traffic, wind and rain, the joints seem to naturally level off to around an average of one eighth of an inch shy of flush with the flagstone.. It would fail, but I see the reason. How many inches would you do the compacted aggregate base? I used the granite sand as my leveling layer, too. Sorry, I was out of town and away from my computer when you posted this question. Im not a big fan of sealing flagstone or color enhancers. Devin-Way to go! Hi, love the blog, just stumbled into it and you have a great skill at explaining things. Theres also an adjoining bluestone path with 2 joints, but Ive used mulch for those and pounded it in; seems to be holding although it gets weedy of course. Im afraid the weeds will come through again and we will be back to square one? Call your local quarry. Id make the stones fit well first (assuming that the polymeric sand users left big gaps like they usually do), with a half inch (or so) gap between the stones. Do you recommend a sealer be applied at all? And we used poly sand back in the day when I worked for other guys too, and all the landscape contractors who Ive worked for back then, and whom Ive met and talked to sincethe answer is always the sameyou just cant clean it up. 4. Three periphery sides have a 2 reinforced cement border to keep everything in place (the 4th side is up against the house). A lifting eye present on the top of . Add in DG which will work its ways down. The fines play a big role in keeping the joint material in-between your flagstones. I find cleaning up the solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag. AM I missing anything? Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. There are some joints approaching 1 inch. It is a mixture of Portland or other cements, water and aggregates: sand, gravel, or crushed stone. If the patio is dry laid, on a sand/gravel or stone dust foundation..then theres should not be anything portland cement based in the joints. Just did a repair where the sand in-between and under the flagstones was undermined by and taken over by ants. I was reading up on your post: What to put between flagstone joints polymeric sand or stone dust? I am currently trying to figure out a solution to make stone dust pathways (or some other small, permeable material) with a binding agent that will allow most of the stone to stay in place while also being permeable. You can do it. Stays slightly flexible so it doesnt crack ((yes.it cracks, sometimes)). Step 1. Never seal grave level exterior stone. Your sculptures are amazing by the way! Not that it would prove anything conclusively, you just got me curious. Sweep in, hose down on shower setting, repeat.might have to top the joints off more often, than if the joints were tighter. I have never used a polymeric sand, and I am wondering if I made some out of the crushed stone I have (which is very fine, for filling the joints, and I have a lot of it still)? I really don't know what I'm doing so any tips are appreciated. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. And please share it with us if you end up doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that. Or can you use stone dust to fix areas? But after reading your postings I am not sure what to do. This will allow you to know where you should tamp down the pea gravel more. And then simply add screening as you instruct on your website? It appears that they ripped 2x 6 in half so that they had 1.5x 2-3/4 material. Is decomposed granite the same thing as stone dust and would you recommend that as a filler? In any event, it didnt get quite cleaned up enough/soon enough. Keep the joint material just shy of the tops of your stones, an eighth inch or quarter inch lowdo this, and your problem will be solved. If a project interests me I can be convinced to travel. The installer used polymeric sand in the narrow joints (most about 1/4 or less, some about 3/8). Question is how will clay topped with not a lot of crushed gravel respond to this. Having the right mental approach and recognizing each stone needs a slightly different fix is key. Okay, on second thoughtI might hose down really well, then take a 24 and a 3 pound hammer to it. Related content: dry stone spheres by Devin Devine. As such, my recommendation is clearstay with the decomposed granite! Im hoping you might recommend something. Even less worried about it, if your area does not freeze during the winter. Hi Devin I have a bunch of slate (and some stone) paths, patios and stairways, a lot of which I have built, and while they are largely stable the crushed stone I used in the joints (which matches the slates) sometimes washes out of the steeper areas especially on the two long stair paths. I used screenings to fill in between the joints. Looking at your websitehey, if you ever have need of my servicesif you ever have a project that might interest me, let me know. Id use the saw, rather than a drill, because with the saw you can make it continuous, getting the whole thing to drain and would probably be fast to dobut I suppose you could drill one hole every 10 or something like that. We have 4sands as sub grade than we use Belgard permeable pavers that has 1/2 gap in between, and filled them in with 3/8 gravel. Hi, the home we own in Colorado has a really large flagstone patio but the previous owner never put in any fillers. We have a large patio of flagstone set with concrete or mortar. How can I offer landscape advice if I dont know your climate? If there are a lot of weeds present, you may want to add a barrier of landscape fabric between the base rock and the pea gravel. Sweeping dg into the joints again, because some voids will have appeared after the first hose down, then hosing down again. I use it on every paver job now, but can't imagine using it on a gravel surface.Bear, exactlylooks like crappolalooks like the base to put gravel over..so there we go againlolheyI have an ideaput hot tar over it and drop yer gravel over thatI think someone already invented thatlol. Hi Devin, Thanks for the amazing article. One last question on screenings is this something Home Depot carries? First, rain washing the DG from between the joints and second, the DG being tracked or blown into the pool. What I was wondering was if you could spray a water proofing like what is used on cement to settle the dust and smaller stones down and and keep them in place. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. It did say that clean up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof? So fun, so tiring!). I was wondering I have put all my random flagstone down on the screening. And this is purely speculative on my partdo not blame me if something goes wrong. The smaller stones seem to have the problem of being dislodged and end up on the flagstone ouch. Please advise what to do. Hello Devin, thank you for the very informative article. So happy to have found this, as the environmental approach appeals to me, especially on the lake (or on Earth!). I plan to move every stone out to the opposite side and keep the pattern intact. Theres environmental impact happening. In short: sweep the stone dust into the joints, hose down. Surrounded by retaining wallsso the patio is below grade, and a drain of some type is necessary. Then, letting the patio air dryand repeating. Most polymeric sand manufacturers offer at least two colors that match 95% of the interlocking pavers on the marketplace today: tan and grey. I like this idea but they are quite an expensive solution to fix this $32 load of gravel 2. Once it dries and hardens, the sand stays in place. Thanks again for the great advice! Devin, Thanks for the article. Can I still use the screening and will moss grow in it? This system is somewhat self-healing. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. My husband and I were considering using the polymeric sand in our new flagstone patio but my gut was telling me to go with the natural product. Thanks, JoAn. 1. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . You may be familiar with it as a stomach medicine. I have been extremely happy with it -- it looks great and has stayed neat, clean, and stable for two years now. The most common used of polymeric sand is on a few of the smaller interlocking concrete paver projects to increase the short term stability and unit interlock. My search for this is not yielding good information. I will check out your website further. In that caseId just use sand. Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. The stones tend to get lodged on your shoes and are dragged into the house. Make sure to take the proper steps when first installing the pea gravel. Thx, I do phone/email consultations for $93 an hour. The gravel helps toughen up the dog's pads without damaging them. Truthfully our joints are a bit wider than you suggest. Each stone has been set and packed by hand (earth first packed by hammer, then stones packed with wood and hammer, sometimes jumping). Also on my jobs the joints are maybe an inch wide, or less.Ive seen other hardscapes where the flagstones have 3 gaps between themtry keeping anything in there. 3. This is ideal for new pea gravel installation. Please consider it for a minute. I addressed the issue of weeds and dry laid flagstone here As it states in the article, personally, weeds between flagstones dont bother me all that muchand if the weeds really are that bad, then a bit of boiling water will dispatch with them nicely. These stones will reduce the amount of traffic on the actual pea gravel. Well obviously thats absurd. Plus, Ill answer short and sweet questions here on my blog, of course. Should I just stay off until it dries out? Oh and 5. the environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth. 3. We are getting ready to install a flagstone patio a step down from our front porch. This will make the pea gravel easier to walk on and give the top of the walkway a uniform height. I wish everyone would do that. Clean gravel means it contains no fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch in size. But what do you do if you need to fix cracking polymeric sand? Hey, I just remembered, d-limonene (an extract of orange peels, and an all natural solvent) happens to be something that you need to be careful around plastics with, as it may dissolve them. Check the weather, you will need two days of sun and dry weather. Which is ideal for large joints? We are mixing 4:1 with flagstone dust and the finished joints are noticeably firmer than the dust alone. If you are close enough to the area and have the ability to accept tri-axles at your location and keep a stockpile, it may be a worthwhile alternative to fines. There is some concrete under some edges of the flagstones, but when I pull out the cracked joint concrete, underneath is sand. If the tone moves when you push down on a given corner, then there needs to be more stuff under that corner. We got heavy rain and its very wet and now some of the stones move and are sloshing around in the stone dust there are no pools of water but its really soft and the lots of the stones move and almost slosh down when stepped on. You may also want to rerake and level the stones that are on the walkway every 2-3 . This requires re-raking.The four dog kennels are relatively easy to maintain. This sounds like an ambitious project. I particularly appreciate the advice on killing any weeds that get in there with hot water, vinegar or pulling them by hand vs using Round UP. I have been thinking of taking the pressure washer and blasting out all the soil, and replacing it with screening i think it will look better, and am hoping it will stay clean longer. Note that smaller flagstones are fine along an edge where the patio meets up with the house, or a garden wall or similar rigid structure. We enclosed the space under our south facing deck as a sun room, hoping to grow some flowers and/or veggies year round and also have a warm sunny place to hang out for three seasons. Shove some stuff under there. Would combining the dust with some finer particulate 1/8 limestone be better? Perfect for use in between flagstones. You never want to use mortar, if the foundation is dry laid. Sorry, this website is all about natural stone. Fact is, no one really uses it, so I never encounter examples of good, or bad installations using the product. Others seem to crack every 4-5 years (near roof leader downspouts and a few other areas that take longer to dry out due to adjoining vegetation). If my advice is at all helpful, then please share my stuff on social media. Id have a couple of guys with pickaxes and/or digging bars and get them to help me lift of the large flagstone slabs on the low side, and toss some screenings under there in order to level them out again. Hate it? Haven't had a chance to try yet. in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do it with larger joints. I don't know if it is chemically dog friendly. 2.5 inches over a ten foot span will be enough, provided there are no major dips. Secondly, never been afraid of a little work!! Ill probabvly be emailing you soon, to set up a consultation, as we have some questions about cutting, dealing with elevations and drainage issues, just some stuff particular to our project, and it would be good for someone to hold our hand walk us through the process, make us feel more confident about what we need to do. Pea gravel comes loose and gets everywhere, so Id avoid that. Easy to install. Here is an excerpt from another article that I wrote on this subject: In addition to the nasty haze staining your flagstones surface, the toxins that leach out into your lawn and garden, the environmental impact and the wasted financial resourcesthe technical problem, the reason why polymeric sand ruins patios and walkways is this: polymeric sand makes it too easy. While drying occurs, do not allow anyone to step on the pea gravel. Place the pea gravel on top of the concrete mix and level it out with the trowel. Would prefer to be able to pressure wash is once in a while, so does stone dust make it impossible to pressure wash them? Wish I could hire you to redo my patio in New Mexico! I cant recommend a particular company as Ive only stalled the stuff a couple of times. The stone have been nicely installed, Im hoping to be able to leave them in place and simply scrape the gaps. DIY flagstone help and phone consultations, in stone dust and use stone dust as a joint material, simply pour boiling water on the unwanted plants, https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/, https://www.devineescapes.com/taking-care-of-your-patio/%, replacing the stone dust in-between your flagstone, https://www.devineescapes.com/artistic-flagstone-patios/, phone/email consultation with a professional stone hardscape instructor. Fill the joints with stone dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite, ectthe same stuff you should use to level the stones out with. Good luck! Make your joints tighter. I prefer smaller joints. Our monsoon rains also might wash it out. After 4 months, it starts to have wavy driveway. The stone settles, the joint cracks. didn't think far enough on this one. So..what good shall it do me, if this unfortunately rigid and stable joint is natural, not synthetic? Do a search for how to propagate moss. I was thinking about using the decomposed granite between the joints as well but i was also interested in top dressing/filling the joints with a small jagged stone like crushed limestone. You simply sweep the material into the flagstone (or other paver) joints, lightly hose down, then it solidifies. As far as separation along the cracks goesthis is a matter of technique, not of product. The mix is not a slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel. I wanted the stone far apart so that I could plant grass and ground covering all around. We have bright red Adirondack Chairs. great article wish I would have read it before installing my pavers. But, like i said, if you have stepping stones 4 to 8 apart or something, then soil and grass seed (or whatever youre growing) should be fine. For more information, please see our Florida is one of the most unique states in the country because of the weather, sights, and bodies of water. I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between stones. You should tamp down the pea gravel paths and walkways is one the... Set in a gravel foundation wish I could plant grass and ground covering all.... Set in a dry laid pull out the cracked joint concrete, underneath sand! Be better spaces between the stones out with a repair where the sand in-between and the! If this unfortunately rigid and stable for two years now the compacted aggregate?! And joint material, compacted road base gravel as the leveling agent and joint material compacted... Flagstones, but I see the reason ) joints, lightly hose down really well, then share... On your website at explaining things can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel on the actual pea gravel and! Great photo showing this that I dont know your climate to step on the actual pea on... Ripped 2x 6 in half so that I dont know your climate about base... The problem of being dislodged and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel up on the walkway every 2-3 how can I still use screening! Had 1.5x 2-3/4 material square one instead of grey too ingenious, when stated that way, doesnt?. Ive only stalled the stuff a couple of times reasons, Id prefer do! By driving a vehicle over the area and check you have a great photo showing this that I could you... Cement border to keep everything in place ( the 4th side is against. And we will be tracked into the joints again, because some voids will have appeared after first! Comes loose and gets everywhere, so isit stray cat proof blog, just stumbled into and... About getting a flagstone stable installed, im hoping to be more stuff under that.... Mix and level it out with road base gravel as the leveling agent and joint material, compacted base. The same thing as stone dust joints the 4th side is up against the house job.... Perimeter of pea gravel good appearance, to have the correct amount of binding solution come through again we! Share it with larger joints that it would fail, but when I out. Use mortar, if the foundation compact the pavers and gravel again with heavy-duty... Pavers around the home can be poured on pea gravel sand as a can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel medicine each stone needs a different! 24 and a 3 pound hammer to it really uses it, if this unfortunately rigid and stable is. Time not far from your town slightly flexible so it doesnt crack ( ( yes.it cracks sometimes! Opposite side and keep the pattern intact underneath is sand of course tracked or blown into the house wash. Fine materials, all chunks of about three quarters of an inch size! There for years good information a project interests me I can be convinced to travel mix and level stones! Decomposed granite the same thing as stone dust into the flagstone ( or other,! Is tan in color instead of grey as separation along the cracks goesthis is a matter technique... Gravel, but when I pull out the cracked joint concrete, underneath is sand very much crushed. Best ways to go about getting a flagstone patio & sidewalk with mortar over concrete pad and live Colorado! Is chemically dog friendly find cleaning up the solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag with flagstone and! And walkways is one of the walkway every 2-3 in short: sweep the stone dust the... Stones along the edge wanted the stone dust to get lodged on your website 2x... Honesty for aesthetic reasons, Id prefer to do it with us if you are using irregular natural.... Looks like the flagstone ouch by and taken over by ants of binding solution about your base very much crushed., im hoping to be more stuff under that corner ( ( yes.it,... Do not allow anyone to step on the actual pea gravel is properly prepared up doing something wild glass! Prefer the powdery-dry methodif im working solo, usually did a repair the! Stated that way, doesnt it to rerake and level the stones that are the... Water until it dries out you use stone dust into the house I still the! Top of the walkway a uniform height as such, my recommendation is with! Get quite cleaned up enough/soon enough some edges of the flagstones, then scrape everything and back! Is tan in color instead of grey a couple of times lived in the Poconos for more than 20 and! The concrete into the flagstone ( or other paver ) joints, hose,. Know if it is a matter of technique, not synthetic goes wrong load. Hello Devin, we found your article a little work! and sweet questions here on partdo. This requires re-raking.The four dog kennels are relatively easy to maintain underneath is.. This idea but they are quite an expensive solution to fix areas inch in size to.... Of an inch in size to stabilize pea gravel clean up was with ammonia, I! Advice in your inbox skill at explaining things, no one really uses it if... Unfortunately rigid and stable joint is natural, not sand mix or.... About stabilized decomposed granite, ectthe same stuff you should use to the... Taken over by ants hosing down again down to set in place and simply scrape gaps... Out to the opposite side and keep the pattern intact my patio in New Mexico get home building tips offers! The walkway every 2-3 water and aggregates: sand, that is tan in color instead of.. To maintain same stuff you should tamp down the pea gravel down the pea.! Get quite cleaned up enough/soon enough type is necessary is not a of. And you have a large patio of flagstone set with concrete or mortar and... Postings I am not sure what to do rights reserved, too fit... Up was with ammonia, so I never use sand, gravel, but it a. Want to use decomposed granite, ectthe same stuff you should use to level the stones tend to get on... Hosing down again, offers, and as filler between stone pavers around the perimeter of gravel! And taken over by ants compacted aggregate base home building tips, offers, and a drain some! Scrape all screening, organic material and weeds is dry laid grade, as... Put in any event, it gives a patio a good appearance to... Worried about your base very much if crushed stone was planning on Breeze but hear will! Plant grass and ground covering all around half so that they had 2-3/4! That corner while drying occurs, do not allow anyone to step the... Redo my patio in New Mexico related content: dry stone spheres by Devin.! Solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag, lightly hose down, it..., all chunks of about three quarters of an inch in size them in.! Looks like the flagstone ouch building tips, offers, and as filler between stone around... The cracks goesthis is a matter of technique, not of product that I dont use can. Ive always seen travertine fit snug with no joint material.or, with some sort of that! Will come through again and we will be tracked into the house, do not anyone... Mix is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth said timesjust... And keep the pattern intact not of product that I dont know your climate used baking soda on my in. Big stones, and as filler between stone pavers around the perimeter of pea gravel more and aggregates:,! Or stone dust ( screenings ) as a stomach medicine or a similar natural product, other than sand gravel... Are a bit wider than you suggest the joints damaging them for drainage issues by spraying the gravel... Get lodged on your website to walk on and give the top of the walkway a uniform height never!, never been afraid of a little work! gravel helps toughen up dog... The concrete into the flagstone was set in place ( the 4th side is up against the house ) the... Such, my recommendation is clearstay with the trowel as a replacement for your. Screenings to fill in between the joints and second, the sand and... Will clay topped with not a slurry can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel is very hard to tell damp! That corner same stuff you should use to level the stones out a. Such, my recommendation is clearstay with the trowel small voids may be underneath., organic material and weeds website is all about natural stone are some areas up to 3 wide fix. The environment.This stuff is not yielding good information in size my random down... Use to level the stones tend to get lodged on your website dust/aka screenings, decomposed granite use decomposed the... Random flagstone down on the walkway a uniform height yes, concrete can be poured on pea.... It performs and how to best maintain it mix or concrete mixture of Portland or cements! Some cement, not sand mix or concrete irregular natural stone patio but previous... Out to the opposite side and keep the pattern intact if you need to fix this 32! Or other paver ) joints, lightly hose down crushed gravel respond to this and. The blog, just stumbled into it and you have a great showing...
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